(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
GN[Team Go Event - C. Yaoye, Z. Ruiyang, M. Yuting, S. Yue, T. Weixing vs. AlphaGo]PW[AlphaGo]PB[TeamGo 45p]WR[9p]DT[2017-05-26]EV[Future of Go Summit]PC[Wuzhen, China]BT[Chen Yaoye, Zhou Ruiyang, Mi Yuting, Shi Yue, Tang Weixing]SO[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[USGO2 - Fyaa]C[The chinese pro team:
- Chen Yaoye
- Zhou Ruiyang
- Mi Yuting
- Shi Yue
- Tang Weixing ]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]C[USGO2 [-\]: The team will be black, alphago is white
DaisyRains: This should be entertaining, I guess there's a commentary on future of go website too
Foxy [2d?\]: i had no idea this game was now
]
;W[dd]
;B[qp]C[USGO2 [-\]: google commentary seems to be only chinese
DaisyRains: no, English with Redmond
USGO2 [-\]: the setup is, zhou ruiyang is sat at the board, the other 4 players are sitting behind him with their own board
]
;W[dp]C[USGO2 [-\]: they are discussing right now
Foxy [2d?\]: i dont follow professional go much, can someone enlighten me as to where this team scores from 1 to absolutely stacked 
]
;B[fq]C[DaisyRains: stacked
USGO2 [-\]: they make up most of the top 10 players in china
USGO2 [-\]: so, pretty good
Foxy [2d?\]: sweet
DaisyRains: They win international tournaments
AaronATX: 45p
]
;W[oq]C[USGO2 [-\]: gu li is giving chinese commentary on youtube stream right now
USGO2 [-\]: i dont know who the female is
Stochasty [2k?\]: Wish my chinese were good enough to follow along.
]
;B[cn]
;W[dn]
;B[dm]
;W[en]C[USGO2 [-\]: it will help that they have a board to play otu variations too
]
;B[cp]C[Foxy [2d?\]: i wonder how much relative strength is actually gained per added pro
]
;W[cq]
;B[co]C[USGO2 [-\]: hard to say
]
;W[dq]
;B[gp]C[DaisyRains: I think the added strength is (1) using a board to analyse and (2) picking up errors
]
;W[po]C[USGO2 [-\]: ye sthe board helps. its like having the analyze game feature on OGS
]
;B[qo]
;W[pn]
;B[qm]
;W[iq]C[USGO2 [-\]: for a brief period, r7 had fallen out of favor among pros, in favor of pushing again at r6, because supposedly white immediately playing r3 here is a good result for white
USGO2 [-\]: but i guess they figure its okay now
USGO2 [-\]: theyve both spent the same amount of time until now, im guessing now will be when they spend a lot of time
]
;B[ip]C[DaisyRains: black preparing push and cut this way
]
;W[jp]
;B[jq]
;W[kq]
;B[jr]C[Xan [-\]: Ciao : u know if they are consulting at each move ?   and in case of conflicting ideas how is decided the move in a reasoable time ?
]
;W[hq]C[AaronATX: rock paper scissors :x
USGO2 [-\]: zhou ruiyang is sat at the main board, behind him are the other 4 players with their own board, and going over variations
USGO2 [-\]: and zhou joins them when able 
Xan [-\]: being 5 better the enhanced with also lizard & Spock ...
USGO2 [-\]: i just realized i had the wrong youtube stream up. i didnt know they had english one up
USGO2 [-\]: i was sitting there listening to gu li not understanding a word he said
DaisyRains: when you register on the site, they choose the appopriate game demo for you
Stochasty [2k?\]: Interesting shot of the team playing out the atari at L4
AaronATX: alphago gets to play out all the variations it wants.  makes sense that the humans would get a board to push stones around on too.
AaronATX: without having to rely on visualization so much
USGO2 [-\]: i think with these tools available there will be some really interesting mvoes coming out of the pro camp too
Joffrey [3d\]: they are considering L4 atari and then L3, likely Mi YuTing's idea
USGO2 [-\]: i just wish they had another camera over their board too
AaronATX: yes that would be nice
USGO2 [-\]: according to redmond they are considering g6 as well
]
;B[io]
;W[kr]
;B[gn]C[AaronATX: how dejected are they going to be when they lose?
]
;W[do]C[Joffrey [3d\]: black might need to mend the cut but Gu Li think black isn't good after black c8 white e7 black e8 white f8 black e9 white g7
]
;B[dl]
;W[fm]
;B[ci]
;W[ej]C[AaronATX: I only see 4 pros at the board
AaronATX: nvm he's back
Joffrey [3d\]: Gu Li says game is getting difficult for black. With E10 white is getting control of the game
USGO2 [-\]: b has used 30 minutes now. alphago 11
]
;B[di]
;W[hl]C[AaronATX: looking bad only 35 moves into the game... ke jie at least made it to 50 :x
Foxy [2d?\]: its crazy how people can read advantages so early in the game, i have literally zero clue 
uberaji: its good to see they're having a good time
Stochasty [2k?\]: I think we're learning that AG is immensely strong at fuseki.
]
;B[il]
;W[hk]
;B[im]
;W[kp]C[Stochasty [2k?\]: Redmond talking about Mi Yuting's endgame... somehow I doubt that any pro would have a better endgame the AG if the game were close at that point.
]
;B[jj]C[Foxy [2d?\]: seems unlikely
]
;W[qc]C[Foxy [2d?\]: so middle game is the only chance then :P
Foxy [2d?\]: hey look! signature move
USGO2 [-\]: this move had been absent from alphago lately
crazyeight [3d?\]: 45p -.-
holynec [1d\]: p15
crazyeight [3d?\]: it's a necktie ;o
holynec [1d\]: 9p vs 45p
holynec [1d\]: how is this even close
Respect38: I think it's unfair to say that AlphaGo is a 45p. ;)
holynec [1d\]: you're right
holynec [1d\]: 55p
crazyeight [3d?\]: pfft
crazyeight [3d?\]: 90p ez
]
;B[pc]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: you guys didn't have a KGS board yesterday
crazyeight [3d?\]: for game 2
]
;W[qd]C[USGO2 [-\]: i guess they couldnt find someone to relay the game
]
;B[qf]
;W[qe]
;B[pe]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: this is the craziest thing
]
;W[rf]
;B[fc]
;W[hc]C[USGO2 [-\]: looks like they switched captains, chen yaoye is captain now
tugkan [2d\]: D17 for black 
USGO2 [-\]: team go has used 1 hr now
comfyditch [1k\]: how many are the team?
USGO2 [-\]: 5
comfyditch [1k\]: do you think they are employing any division of labors?
USGO2 [-\]: they did switch captains once already, and they do have a big discussion going
]
;B[fe]
;W[db]
;B[jc]
;W[hh]C[DaisyRains: lol
]
;B[eb]C[DaisyRains: kudos for anyone who found h12
crazyeight [3d?\]: who are the members of the team?
]
;W[ce]C[comfyditch [1k\]: was it played as quickly as it followed k17 here?
USGO2 [-\]: i was away for minute but it was probably played in the same amount of time as the other moves
USGO2 [-\]: which about 1 minute
crazyeight [3d?\]: ooh, nevermind
ergodic [3d\]: h12 not expected i think
crazyeight [3d?\]: I found the list
crazyeight [3d?\]: only names that are familiar are shi yue, tang weixing and chen yaoye
USGO2 [-\]: ah, yeah the 5 players are chen yaoye, zhou ruiyang, mi yuting, shi yue and tang weixing
USGO2 [-\]: all are top players
DaisyRains: w 57.5 b 70
comfyditch [1k\]: how divergent are their playing syles, for top pros?
comfyditch [1k\]: tyles
comfyditch [1k\]: styles
crazyeight [3d?\]:  you're giving both players way too much credit, daisy
DaisyRains: you don't know my counting system
crazyeight [3d?\]: huh
ergodic [3d\]: they have quite divergent styles
kimchi [1k\]: explain:-)
DaisyRains: well, that's true
USGO2 [-\]: im not really fully aware of all their individual styles, but im sure they vary a lot
DaisyRains: not a criticism
crazyeight [3d?\]: black is slightly favorable it looks like, but no more than 5 points
crazyeight [3d?\]: pretty impressive
DaisyRains: I'd weight in sente here
DaisyRains: sorry, I didn't weight in white's sente here
WiteDragon [2k\]: w will harass k10 now to annihilite b top
crazyeight [3d?\]: yeah, the top isn't as large as it looks
comfyditch [1k\]: that is is a somewhat crazy statement, 7 more to come, I suppose
WiteDragon [2k\]: that's the whole reason w played h12
ergodic [3d\]: tang weixing and mi yuting like to play complicated fight, while shi yue and chen yaoye good
DaisyRains: what is a crazy statement?
ergodic [3d\]: *good at whole-board judgement
crazyeight [3d?\]: I'm sure in 20-30 moves alphago will be comfortably ahead
ergodic [3d\]: according to chinese commentary
comfyditch [1k\]: saying that b looks no more than 5 point better
ergodic [3d\]: so they may have a lot of disagreement 
DaisyRains: ok
Noobster [1d\]: how do they decide?
DaisyRains: I haven't used a playout to score undecided points
Noobster [1d\]: who gets the last call?
ergodic [3d\]: zhou ruiyang the captain is supposed to decide
DaisyRains: thx ergodic
comfyditch [1k\]: i suppose the captain of the moment
violon [6k\]: Alphago b ? 
Noobster [1d\]: 5 people sitting against aja huang? or are they in a separate room?
crazyeight [3d?\]: same room
crazyeight [3d?\]: they have 1 player playing the board against aja, and the other 4 at a table behind the main player with a second board for discussion
ergodic [3d\]: zhourui yang is given the nickname alpha goat (goat/sheep=yang in chinese) due to his recent alphago-like style
ergodic [3d\]: one of the reasons he is chosen as the captain
USGO2 [-\]: aja being the usual emotionless lovable supervillain
DaisyRains: commentators quite right, the stone is useful for the erasure aji
DaisyRains: not for living
USGO2 [-\]: team has used half their main time, alphago 18 minutes
comfyditch [1k\]: how has he done as a goat/sheep? Also,  why does the same word mean both goat and sheep?
DaisyRains: but they aren't considering that w might try L17 if the geta is too lose
DaisyRains: loose
comfyditch [1k\]: they are distinctlydifferent species
ergodic [3d\]: "yang" refers to either in chinese
]
;B[hf]C[DaisyRains: loose geta
]
;W[if]C[ergodic [3d\]: zhou ruiyang did well with alphago-like style
ergodic [3d\]: i mean in recent pro games
Noobster [1d\]: how is this ag style? No 3-3 stones
USGO2 [-\]: ive gotten word that the myungwan/badatbaduk AGA broadcast will go live in 20 minutes
DaisyRains: on KGS?
USGO2 [-\]: on twitch
DaisyRains: k tx
USGO2 [-\]: ill link when its live
ServerKGS [1d\]: who it TeamGo45p?
holynec [1d\]: 5 9ps
holynec [1d\]: united as one
USGO2 [-\]: the 5 players are chen yaoye, zhou ruiyang, mi yuting, shi yue and tang weixing
crazyeight [3d?\]: like a giant robot
]
;B[ie]C[Noobster [1d\]: hajin missed the ladder
holynec [1d\]: b+win
crazyeight [3d?\]: think voltron
ServerKGS [1d\]: thanks 
holynec [1d\]: b+res
crazyeight [3d?\]: or the power rangers
]
;W[id]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: black is actually the chinese power rangers
holynec [1d\]: Remember what I said at move 59.
AaronATX: too bad they aren't voltron
holynec [1d\]: B+resign
AaronATX: they could combine into something better
DaisyRains: probably "I am holynec, king of KGS"?
crazyeight [3d?\]: holynec, I'm sorry to disappoint you
crazyeight [3d?\]: but there's no way they can win
ichiruk [6k\]: There is no way this is alpha go
DaisyRains: I would never have predicted this for white, I thought white would lightly erase along the 12th line before using the ajio
DaisyRains: aji
NiceGoAuth [-\]: to bad they dont offer alphagos evaluation life :)
]
;B[ig]
;W[jd]
;B[jf]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: nicego thinks this was a mistake by b in 61
Lanh [7d?\]: This is the power of human
]
;W[lc]C[Noobster [1d\]: this looks bad for b?
ichiruk [6k\]: I don't think this is alphago
comfyditch [1k\]: how strong is NiceGo these  days?
crazyeight [3d?\]: did nicego think black's win percentage dropped?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 6d
ergodic [3d\]: i wonder which of them will want to resign first lol
crazyeight [3d?\]: lol
DaisyRains: b is losing now
crazyeight [3d?\]: I wouldn't want to resign in this game
Lanh [7d?\]: We are sparta!!!!
DaisyRains: try finding a use for the ponnuki
crazyeight [3d?\]: black can force against white's top group and then extend r14
NiceGoAuth [-\]: droped by 5 points after 61, but not far from 50% 
DaisyRains: even after b r13, b won't get many points
Noobster [1d\]: lol, one of the chinese guys seems to be looking around instead of the board
ergodic [3d\]: lol
NiceGoAuth [-\]: he is the specialist for the endgame :)
crazyeight [3d?\]: haha
crazyeight [3d?\]: they may not even make it to the endgame =P
nouziller [2k\]: good one
Lanh [7d?\]: He is thinking in his mind :))
comfyditch [1k\]: maybe there are unofficial teammates amongst the spectators
Lanh [7d?\]: The power of solidarity :3
comfyditch [1k\]: i should say undeclared
Lanh [7d?\]: I think we need setting more time
crazyeight [3d?\]: yeah
Lanh [7d?\]: Like 3 or 4 h
ibd [4k?\]: does anyone have winrates by leela?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: what are the options, seems important phase of the game
NiceGoAuth [-\]: r18 r13?
comfyditch [1k\]: the ponuki doesn't look entirely useless, as it diminishes w attacking chANCES VS  j4 
]
;B[rg]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: r13, I think, is the focal point of the game
DaisyRains: what attacking chances?
crazyeight [3d?\]: interesting
ergodic [3d\]: you can't win by dimishing the chances of being attacked
]
;W[qg]C[comfyditch [1k\]: it thereby may help facilitate b3
]
;B[pf]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: I bet black's win percentage just dropped again
NiceGoAuth [-\]: yes
]
;W[rh]
;B[cb]C[Lanh [7d?\]: How many now?
ergodic [3d\]: ko
]
;W[da]C[comfyditch [1k\]: do you have a move-bymove histogram of b's chances?
USGO2 [-\]: black has 1 hr left
NiceGoAuth [-\]:  do not thrust the absolute values, but 60% for w here
Lanh [7d?\]: Not too high
Lanh [7d?\]: Still can win
NiceGoAuth [-\]: really did not like s13
comfyditch [1k\]: really?. i thought that meant only infinitesmal actul b chance
crazyeight [3d?\]: if AG's win percentage evaluation is already above 50%, it's highly unlikely that it'll lose
ibd [4k?\]: so leela thinks about 40% for black right now, was 48% just a few moves ago. seems like UR corner was bad
ibd [4k?\]: nicegoauth, that's exactly leela's opinion, too
comfyditch [1k\]: i think b just wanted to keep sente
crazyeight [3d?\]: because AG would be considering it's win % as if AG was also sitting at the other side of the table
NiceGoAuth [-\]: they are quite simelar :)
ergodic [3d\]: AG's win percentage as b is below 50% at the start
crazyeight [3d?\]: but it's human players, who have clearly been demonstrated as being weaker than AG
ergodic [3d\]: k18 is there
Joffrey [3d\]: commentators: they are thinking of killing top center white group
DaisyRains: they won't succeed
bpaf [-\]: that'd be fun
Lanh [7d?\]: Yeah
Lanh [7d?\]: Big kill :3
DaisyRains: s13 is clearly "operation kill top group"
ibd [4k?\]: how strong is nicego yet?
ergodic [3d\]: they laugh so much
]
;B[dc]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: they're having fun
]
;W[cc]
;B[ec]C[DaisyRains: s13 was all in, basically
USGO2 [-\]: aga commentary is live - https://www.twitch.tv/usgoweb
]
;W[bb]
;B[ea]
;W[ca]
;B[jb]
;W[nc]C[Cilien [-\]: it is in youtube too
fanfan [2d\]: alphago "à la rue" ?
Cilien [-\]: hello fanfan
fanfan [2d\]: heelo
comfyditch [1k\]: so now what is the percentage?
el [-\]: white seems to understand their plans
crazyeight [3d?\]: black has some interesting options for how to use q17's thickness here
AaronATX: lol @ the name of that twitch stream
AaronATX: Humanity 9p vs AlphaGo
]
;B[ia]
;W[mf]C[ergodic [3d\]: ke jie predicted j16 in the study room and was laughed at according to gu li
AaronATX: nice
DaisyRains: 65.5 59
tugkan [2d\]: Anyone has crazystone?
hellobye01 [11k\]: the study room ?
hellobye01 [11k\]: where is it ?
]
;B[pg]
;W[sg]C[DaisyRains: you need Remi online for crazystone's evaluation, probably
Joffrey [3d\]: study room means analysis room
tugkan [2d\]: What is remi 
hellobye01 [11k\]: yesterday no have kejie Game in KGS
DaisyRains: not what, who
blop778: m15 ?
hellobye01 [11k\]: A funny game
tugkan [2d\]: What/ who i dont have any idea
hellobye01 [11k\]: 5 vs 1
DaisyRains: well do a bit of research about crazystone then
DaisyRains: there's a line where b loses the ponnuki, remarkably
holynec [1d\]: im worried about black time :/
USGO2 [-\]: this is probably the game here, trying to determine how t attack this group
Cart [?\]: i wondrr if b looses they'll blame it on time
blop778: what about m15 ? 
Cart [?\]: to keep 'thr faith'
ergodic [3d\]: *kill this group
ergodic [3d\]: so few points elsewhere
DaisyRains: b isn't actually so far behind on points, the problem is that the yose is much worse for b now
ergodic [3d\]: b has only about 20 points
inte [?\]: 45p is a good one
Prime [-\]: team humanity has about 35 minutes left in main time ;p
awiuaw [-\]: the machine over 2 hours
holynec [1d\]: p18
]
;B[mh]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: machine :))
hellobye01 [11k\]: super machine
]
;W[ng]C[el [-\]: well, as human I would be afraid here as white
]
;B[qh]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: it's not a washing machine
]
;W[nh]
;B[rg]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: it could become a washing machine
hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
crazyeight [3d?\]: the strongest washing machine ever created
hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
]
;W[qi]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: so it is super- washing machine
awiuaw [-\]: the super cleaner
]
;B[pi]C[Foxy [2d?\]: it's taking b to the cleaner :<
]
;W[qg]
;B[ph]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: it's taking five 9p players to the cleaner
AaronATX: i think it would be slack during the rinse cycle and only get the clothes "clean enough"
]
;W[mi]C[Prime [-\]: interesting
]
;B[rg]C[DaisyRains: sorry, why has b played b19
]
;W[ke]C[Athanos [10k\]: I'd think the team would be at a disadvantage as a result of it not having a single purpose
Athanos [10k\]: so it makes sense 
kimchi [1k\]: ko now?
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Reminds me of a reddit comment
AaronATX: the humans should have been given more time.  it takes longer to discuss moves.
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Gu Li was talking about previous Team matches, and how once a team of Shi Yue, Zhou Ruiyang and Chen yaoye kept on arguing about what to do, and couldn't reach an agreement...  Meanwhile, the other team had Kang Dongyun, Park Junghwan and Choi Cheolhan. Choi Cheolhan occasionally looked at the variations to make sure there are no silly mistakes, Kang Dongyun's job was to buy lunch for everyone, and Park Junghwan played the game.  The Korean team ended up winning. 
Prime [-\]: lmao 
AaronATX: hey I can buy lunch as well as anyone.  I could be on that team. :x
hellobye01 [11k\]: yes i could be too
holynec [1d\]: like i said, ke jie + 4 advisers
hellobye01 [11k\]: And he still lost
AaronATX: why does alphago even start with 2.5 hours?  has it taken longer than 1 minute for any of its moves?  just start it off in byo-yomi
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Thing is, we don't even know alpha's maximum strength
DaisyRains: black lost
USGO2 [-\]: 30 min left
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Like, could it give handicaps to ke jie lol
crazyeight [3d?\]: we'll never know, either
DaisyRains: once white gets L15, black's done
hellobye01 [11k\]: Alpha Go can win 100 9p players
ichiruk [6k\]: This game doesnt seem like alpha go to me
Joffrey [3d\]: you will see alpha's max strength only when it plays against itself
crazyeight [3d?\]: alphago only uses its full strength until the human player makes what it considers a mistake
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Sorry, I mean maximum strength comparison relative to strongest groups of human
crazyeight [3d?\]: then it just takes the lead and prunes complicated branches
hellobye01 [11k\]: no 50 first moves of Kejie were perfect
pough [3k\]: id like to see alphago vs stockfish in chess
DaisyRains: w has the attachment to come at K11 and the peep at g16 followed by push
AaronATX: right now AG is probably playing a side game of solitaire to amuse itself while it waits on the humans to move
zxcvbnm [1d\]: What a slacker
zxcvbnm [1d\]: It should be finding innovation for humankind on the side instead of solitaire
crazyeight [3d?\]: it's probably simultaneously playing solitaire and minesweeper, at a rate of 10 games every second
hellobye01 [11k\]: Why does Alpha Go play too fast ?
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Because it doesn't even need to think too much?
ichiruk [6k\]: it isn't alpha. there is no way
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh
zxcvbnm [1d\]: It literally thrashes people without using as much time as its opponent lol
Tongga [1k\]: because go is a piece of cake for Alphago.
ichiruk [6k\]: uh
]
;B[re]
;W[qg]
;B[ba]
;W[aa]
;B[rg]C[zxcvbnm [1d\]: Because ko threat
DaisyRains: right, now it makes sense
USGO2 [-\]: sorry missed the ko exchange
hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
DaisyRains: yes, but it wasn't a ko threat without r13 whit
]
;W[qn]C[Prime [-\]: ko might be good for time too
]
;B[rn]C[nouziller [2k\]: No worry
]
;W[qg]
;B[ne]
;W[me]
;B[rg]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: They talked too much so time go too fast
]
;W[rm]
;B[rl]
;W[qg]
;B[pq]C[Prime [-\]: nice
]
;W[pr]
;B[rg]
;W[pm]
;B[sm]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: Yuting is in top 3 in the world
]
;W[qg]
;B[op]C[Joffrey [3d\]: Gu Li talking about soccer.
]
;W[pp]
;B[qq]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
]
;W[nq]
;B[rg]C[Joffrey [3d\]: He plays soccer too
Dino9 [-\]:  Alpha white?
Prime [-\]: gu li is a babe
NiceGoAuth [-\]: y
SamSpade [2d\]: is there a live feed?
]
;W[pb]C[bpaf [-\]: youtube deepmind feed
DaisyRains: https://events.google.com/alphago2017/
SamSpade [2d\]: thanks
hellobye01 [11k\]: 23 minutes
hellobye01 [11k\]: W+
]
;B[ob]
;W[qg]C[Prime [-\]: lol TeamGo 45p
Prime [-\]: i just saw that
kimchi [1k\]: r18 now
NateC [1d\]: There was a conversation in the EGR about whether or not a group of DDK could beat a shodan. The consensus was that of course they couldn't, because they simply don't know enough, regardless of how many of them you pit together
]
;B[or]
;W[nr]
;B[rg]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
hellobye01 [11k\]: But B is not DDK
hellobye01 [11k\]: they are 9p's
NateC [1d\]: And how strong is Alpha?
hellobye01 [11k\]: maybe 11p
Joffrey [3d\]: the members in the team that is playing the game are former world go champions
DaisyRains: Probably 11p
ThienTru [-\]: r18 
DaisyRains: w is getting ready to let the ko go to win
]
;W[qb]
;B[oc]
;W[qg]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: 45p funny :))
DaisyRains: b losing the ko is unthinkable, b's position resignable if that happens
zxcvbnm [1d\]: So basically hellobye01, since alpha's strength is unquantifiable, having a group of 9p facing against it is hard because for all we know, it could be 13p lol
zxcvbnm [1d\]: unquantifiable compared to a human*
DaisyRains: you can have as many pro as you like, there's still a ceiling the ultimately quality of a move
]
;B[fl]C[britboy [3k\]: was the game close for a while?
]
;W[gm]
;B[rg]C[DaisyRains: I think b was ahead earlier but played too loose at the top
NateC [1d\]: I hope that we'll have pros who will play AlphaGo with handicap so we can get a better sense of its strength
britboy [3k\]: who will be the first?  :)
zxcvbnm [1d\]: I don't think pros are willing to do it
hellobye01 [11k\]: Ke Jie
DaisyRains: kinda embarrassing if you're 9p and lose taking 3 stones
zxcvbnm [1d\]: ^
USGO2 [-\]: i thought they were going to stop developing alphago after this series
]
;W[cm]C[zxcvbnm [1d\]: DaisyRains put it perfectly
Foxy [2d?\]: i dont think its embarrassing but
DaisyRains: oh yes it is
ThienTru [-\]: don't think AG can hd 2 Ke jie
Foxy [2d?\]: i guess i could understand why someone might think that
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Unless someone doesn't have that much pride is willing
AaronATX: offer them enough money and they will do it
inte [?\]: Can alphago even play handicap games well? I wonder whether it would resign on the first move because it's objectively lost :/
ThienTru [-\]: Pro said that
ergodic [3d\]: there are pros who said they are willing to receive 3h from ag
]
;B[sf]C[zxcvbnm [1d\]: who doesn't*
britboy [3k\]: once one gets humiliated, the others will have an incentive to try and do better
DaisyRains: thx ergodic
kimchi [1k\]: brave 
DaisyRains: its the right attitude but losing would be unthinkable
ThienTru [-\]: b is winning :3
]
;W[cl]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: alphago playing with 10% of cpu of the sedol match and having relatively short thinkting time, so they can easily improve it about 300ELO I think
]
;B[ck]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: ke Jie thinked he can win Alpha Go at match 2
DaisyRains: Elo ...
NiceGoAuth [-\]: 2 stones
DaisyRains: obviously AG would start giving 2 stones, you'd increment
NateC [1d\]: 10%? Why would they decrease its potential?
inte [?\]: yet they say it's about 3 stones stronger now than last year's version
DaisyRains: but I think it can win giving 2 stones
]
;W[bn]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: they use single machine, said in press conference
DaisyRains: hence, my thinking ahead to what happens if it gives 3 stones
]
;B[bk]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: It will resign
Foxy [2d?\]: im sure many pros will feel there is no shame in losing to purpose built software. it's inevitable, just like in chess. the problem wont be finding pros who realize its not about pride, but probably in whether or not google agrees to play again
AaronATX: single "machine" running on a cloud service.  not like it's a single desktop pc.
DaisyRains: google will play of course
DaisyRains: because they will have tested it giving hcap
Joffrey [3d\]: I think reverse komi is better than stone handicap
ThienTru [-\]: second defeat :3
]
;W[bm]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: the bot will resign if it must give handi's
]
;B[pl]C[NiceGoAuth [-\]: yes with spechial neural network hardware, but the 10% are from the press conference
inte [?\]: I'm assuming "single machine" is a rack full of TPU and server hardware.
NateC [1d\]: I'm sure they could tell it not to resign before move X
inte [?\]: (but obviously I don't know)
AaronATX: there can still be pride in trying to do better vs alphago than your 9p peers... "you lost at 2 stones but i won"
]
;W[kh]C[ThienTru [-\]: if the team win
DaisyRains: sure
zxcvbnm [1d\]: So Sedol has the highest bragging power then
Foxy [2d?\]: no, different version zxc
zxcvbnm [1d\]: "I won against Alpha without handicap once"
ThienTru [-\]: we will have new type of play :))
zxcvbnm [1d\]: It's just a joke Foxy, lol
]
;B[om]C[Foxy [2d?\]: o
DaisyRains: thing is, it becomes meaningless because the bot improves so fast
Foxy [2d?\]: have they confirmed whether this is the same version that already stomped ke jie online or whether its updated yet again
USGO2 [-\]: b has 18 minutes left
]
;W[ji]C[DaisyRains: probably the same, but who knows, they could have prepared two versions at least for the games
ThienTru [-\]: but the team pro is strong
ibd [4k?\]: what a trade
ThienTru [-\]: Ke JIe can't make a fight with b
hellobye01 [11k\]: W+
ThienTru [-\]: :v team pro kill AG group
DaisyRains: black is about to lose the ponnuki ...
DaisyRains: I think this is the best game so far
ThienTru [-\]: the best game :3
]
;B[li]C[ThienTru [-\]: the power of human :3
]
;W[lh]
;B[mj]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: 17 minutes
AaronATX: they should have let the humans play white
comfyditch [1k\]: pardon me i was away. is b winning ? NGA?
hellobye01 [11k\]: They will have mistakes
ThienTru [-\]: they 5
ThienTru [-\]: hard to make mistake
ThienTru [-\]: one person can
]
;W[ni]C[Foxy [2d?\]: easier 5 people make mistake than 1 alphago lmao
ThienTru [-\]: but 5 is another problem
hellobye01 [11k\]: time is gone, they do not enough time to think
ThienTru [-\]: yeah
ThienTru [-\]: must add time
ThienTru [-\]: nearly win :v
inte [?\]: what's the byo-yomi rule for this game? is it the standard 5x1minute or did they adjust it for consultations?
crazyeight [3d?\]: only 1 byoyomi
crazyeight [3d?\]: 1 minute
inte [?\]: aww
ThienTru [-\]: aww
hellobye01 [11k\]: 3 byo yomi
ThienTru [-\]: why đon
hellobye01 [11k\]: 1 minutes
ThienTru [-\]: dont 3mins/move
ThienTru [-\]: =.=
hellobye01 [11k\]: please view rules
crazyeight [3d?\]: I thought I heard 1 byoyomi
]
;B[df]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: please viewe rules
Foxy [2d?\]: sass
hellobye01 [11k\]: options
]
;W[cf]
;B[dg]
;W[oo]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: ooh, I got confused with the rengo time settings
crazyeight [3d?\]: the rengo was 1x 1 minute byoyomi
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh
crazyeight [3d?\]: this one is 3x 1 minute like you said
]
;B[nj]
;W[rd]
;B[pa]C[fanfan [2d\]: hum
ibd [4k?\]: AG is losing?
ibd [4k?\]: making desperate moves? unpossible
]
;W[nb]C[fanfan [2d\]: AG is thinking it's losing
]
;B[oa]C[fan: not yet
ThienTru [-\]: yes
ThienTru [-\]: it is losing
sandbegger [1k\]: AG is losing ?????
britboy [3k\]: was that just yose?
sandbegger [1k\]: realy?
ThienTru [-\]: Hajin lee said that :3
]
;W[gb]C[USGO2 [-\]: myungwan says game is basically over for b
hellobye01 [11k\]: who win this game ?
AaronATX: that feeling when alphago starts wrapping up the game before you realize it's over :(
]
;B[lb]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
fan: E15
holosys [11k?\]: in the past when alphago has played all the sente moves it was stuck in a death spiral and shortly after resigned
]
;W[kc]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: not so
hellobye01 [11k\]: 45p :))
sandbegger [1k\]: 45p lol
hellobye01 [11k\]: if 10 players, i would be 100p
sandbegger [1k\]: 90
sandbegger [1k\]: not 100
comfyditch [1k\]: lesser robots sometimes play bad moves to make you think you have lost. However, I don't think that happens when you train vs yourself
crazyeight [3d?\]: do they do it to make you think you've lost?
hellobye01 [11k\]: 100p is too strong
comfyditch [1k\]: yes
hellobye01 [11k\]: :))
hellobye01 [11k\]: 45p :))
USGO2 [-\]: sounds like he played s16 in order to make o18 sente
]
;B[ek]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: USGO you should display as 5x9p
hellobye01 [11k\]: not 45p
]
;W[qr]C[comfyditch [1k\]: plus they will sometimes play an insidious moves that looks like a random play when it is really just a strange way to effect a threat
sandbegger [1k\]: if k players team up
]
;B[rr]C[sandbegger [1k\]: the more the player, the worse they become
sandbegger [1k\]: 2k + 2k = 4k
hellobye01 [11k\]: 10 minutes
Foxy [2d?\]: lol
SamuBlaa [7k\]: o5 strong in future?
kimchi [1k\]: too many cooks are spoil the meal
hellobye01 [11k\]: 2k+2k= 4k or 1d ?
SamuBlaa [7k\]: for black
]
;W[lm]C[Joffrey [3d\]: white gave away a lot, another 1/2 pts game?
sandbegger [1k\]: five 1k players team up and they will become 5k
crazyeight [3d?\]: it's heading in that direction
AaronATX: if this one also ends up being 0.5 then we have to conclude deepmind is trolling the pros
sandbegger [1k\]: when 30 1k players combined ? they don't even know the rules 
nouziller [2k\]: I think they already consider this attack
Foxy [2d?\]: its just frustratingly designed so its hard to gauge its strength >:( those endless master 0.5 games 
hellobye01 [11k\]: 8 minutes
hellobye01 [11k\]: who win this game ?
sandbegger [1k\]: AG
]
;B[kl]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: not so, foxy
Joffrey [3d\]: AG wants to win by 1/2 pt
hellobye01 [11k\]: 1/2 points is too small
inte [?\]: AlphaGo wants to win.
]
;W[oj]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: yes inte you are right
Foxy [2d?\]: why dont you think so, crazy
Fuente [2k\]: nice
sandbegger [1k\]: disagree
sandbegger [1k\]: it's an AI
USGO2 [-\]: according to muyngwan, b would be ahead if there wasnt a ko at k18 stones, but because its there, w should be able to keep the lead
sandbegger [1k\]: it doesn't "want" anything
AaronATX: can't wait for the press conference when Hassabis says "alphago thought you were never ahead, not even for a second..."
sandbegger [1k\]: it just execute 
]
;B[oi]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: you can judge it's strength compared to 9ps by how quickly it switches strategies
TwoFish [4k\]: Where can I find the Ke Jie vs AlphaGo game 3?
AaronATX: in the future
TwoFish [4k\]: Did anyone relay it on KGS?
nouziller [2k\]: hehe this hane sounds like where are you going?
bpaf [-\]: never?
USGO2 [-\]: you will find it tomorrow
]
;W[nl]
;B[ml]C[sandbegger [1k\]: in the future lol
bpaf [-\]: ah, they are playing the third game?
TwoFish [4k\]: Oh, woops. Thanks.
USGO2 [-\]: yeah, i think ill be the one relaying it as well
bpaf [-\]: awesome! this is great
]
;W[nm]C[fanfan [2d\]: prefer black
]
;B[no]C[sandbegger [1k\]: that's what she said
crazyeight [3d?\]: AG goes full strength in the beginning until first human mistake, then it gains a lead based on choosing highest win % moves, then it simplifies based on highest win% moves, then it gives away points based on high win% moves
]
;W[np]C[Foxy [2d?\]: yes
]
;B[on]
;W[op]
;B[ol]C[tomatoFOOD [7k\]: is she real alphago??
Foxy [2d?\]: sometimes it is obvious when it is giving away points
Foxy [2d?\]: but what if it's giving away points in the middle game too when we dont notice?
Foxy [2d?\]: because it's already ahead?
hellobye01 [11k\]: who is winning ?
crazyeight [3d?\]: it has to simplify before it gives away points
sandbegger [1k\]: it just follow the probability of winning
Joffrey [3d\]: giving away pts is kinda of a bug
britboy [3k\]: Foxy: like filling the ko yesterda?
sandbegger [1k\]: not point
]
;W[nk]C[sandbegger [1k\]: it is not trying to give away points, it played those move cause it has higner percentage of winning
crazyeight [3d?\]: so you know it's not giving away points until it's played simplifying moves
USGO2 [-\]: 6 minutes left for b until overtime
Fuente [2k\]: Hikaru No Go is amazingly prophetic. It contains a scene where 3 games where made jigo on purpose.
Fuente [2k\]: b is falling into a trap here
]
;B[lj]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: Hikaru no Go is a joke
hellobye01 [11k\]: yes, w can trap all 5 players
britboy [3k\]: they need a 2kyu on the team
hellobye01 [11k\]: W+0.5
crazyeight [3d?\]: but it's an entertaining joke :D
]
;W[nn]
;B[ok]
;W[ha]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: Can w's at top right live ?
Foxy [2d?\]: no
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh...
hellobye01 [11k\]: I thought w have that corner
crazyeight [3d?\]: doesn't need to live
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh
hellobye01 [11k\]: does not need
hellobye01 [11k\]: it's just need to win
Cam [1d\]: top right is dead, it couldnt live if it wanted to
hellobye01 [11k\]: :-)
NiceGoAuth [-\]: is top right ko with wt15
crazyeight [3d?\]: no
crazyeight [3d?\]: it's just a dead shape
crazyeight [3d?\]: nothing to be done
superpal1 [2d\]: looks dead
hellobye01 [11k\]: 3 minutes
bpaf [-\]: they are still laughing having a good time
ibd [4k?\]: anyone know any good go clients for ubuntu that can run GTP programs?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: gogui
superpal1 [2d\]: they still gey money even if they lose?
hellobye01 [11k\]: Is Leela ?
Cam [1d\]: sabaki
ibd [4k?\]: gogui website says it's no longer supported.
]
;B[mb]
;W[kb]
;B[mc]
;W[md]C[Cam [1d\]: use Sabaki instead of gogui
Cam [1d\]: it is updated weekly or so
sandbegger [1k\]: of course they still get paid, it's not gambling 
sandbegger [1k\]: but they'll get bonus if they win
]
;B[nd]C[ibd [4k?\]: I'll try sabaki, thanks. crazy that it's impossible to find on google
]
;W[la]C[ThienTru [-\]: who is winning now?
crazyeight [3d?\]: white
sandbegger [1k\]: AG
crazyeight [3d?\]: white has been winning the entire game
sandbegger [1k\]: dang
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh
Foxy [2d?\]: since k3
]
;B[na]C[Foxy [2d?\]: lol
hellobye01 [11k\]: 1 minutes
crazyeight [3d?\]: it'll be strange if AG doesn't l19 here
]
;W[rs]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: strange :D
hellobye01 [11k\]: strange because it is too strong
ibd [4k?\]: haylee said ko not that big
crazyeight [3d?\]: guess it's close enough that AG wont l19
]
;B[rq]C[Cam [1d\]: l19 isnt a ko
fanfan [2d\]: b l19 doesn't work
USGO2 [-\]: if b l19 then i think ag would j18 and deal with it
Cam [1d\]: white just does j18
]
;W[bh]C[ibd [4k?\]: over
ibd [4k?\]: last chance for humanity tomorrow
USGO2 [-\]: b has entered byo yomi
USGO2 [-\]: 3 periods of 1 minute
Foxy [2d?\]: nah i think master trounced ke jie 3 times in december like it was nothing, no "hope" tomorrow, i was excited for this match
USGO2 [-\]: captain switch, i think chen yaoye has taken over
fanfan [2d\]: i think black s2 was not good
ThienTru [-\]: :3
crazyeight [3d?\]: it's weixing
]
;B[gj]C[fanfan [2d\]: better to play P6 at that time
USGO2 [-\]: ah is it?
]
;W[gi]
;B[fi]C[fanfan [2d\]: ponuki is a strong shape :-)
AaronATX: I wanna see AG use up an hour and a half on a yose move
crazyeight [3d?\]: that would be incredibly annoying :D
crazyeight [3d?\]: although the algos used to develop AG have actually done that before
crazyeight [3d?\]: when they were testing it on atari games
]
;W[fh]
;B[ei]
;W[hj]C[AaronATX: well breakout is so deep
crazyeight [3d?\]: at times when it found itself in a losing position, it would pause the game
Foxy [2d?\]: hahaha
Foxy [2d?\]: cant lose if you dont play
crazyeight [3d?\]: and leave it paused forever
AaronATX: smart
]
;B[ln]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: demis hassabis talks about it in a lot of his speaking engagements
Respect38: Reminds me of a NES-playing bot that would sometimes pause the game immediately before dying and never unpause.
]
;W[kn]C[AaronATX: "so if I hit this button I never lose? this game is easy."
]
;B[mm]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: this is interesting
]
;W[mn]
;B[lo]C[USGO2 [-\]: alphago has used 1 hour now
SamSpade [2d\]: too close
]
;W[mo]C[Foxy [2d?\]: hm
]
;B[km]C[britboy [3k\]: dont play alphago he is an escaper
]
;W[er]C[AaronATX: lol
]
;B[fr]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: what happens after whit ek6?
]
;W[lp]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: guess it doesnt matter anymore
Fuente [2k\]: total destruction
]
;B[ll]C[Fuente [2k\]: b defended
OoohShiny [4k\]: whats team 45 p?
]
;W[jn]C[fanfan [2d\]: why b 193 was not played at H11?
Athanos [10k\]: 5 9 dans
Zuki [2k\]: 5 9 p
OoohShiny [4k\]: mhhh yeah
]
;B[hm]
;W[bi]C[OoohShiny [4k\]: i guess five 11 kyus could have a chance against a 8 kyu
sandbegger [1k\]: 5 11k = 55k
OoohShiny [4k\]: the point still stands
Foxy [2d?\]: id guess 5 9p working together probably dont increase their strength by much more than a stone at most
AaronATX: worse than not even knowing the rules of the game
zxcvbnm [1d\]: Ah, if only dan level multiplies that way too
]
;B[fg]C[zxcvbnm [1d\]: That's IF the strength increases in the first place
OoohShiny [4k\]: well theres a saying, too many cooks mess up the... i actually dont know the english word, just some simple dish
AaronATX: 55k player thinks he's playing pente
zxcvbnm [1d\]: For all we know, it could degrade the overall strength
sandbegger [1k\]: i love playing pente
]
;W[gk]
;B[fj]C[Fuente [2k\]: 45p can give 36 stones to a 9p
sandbegger [1k\]: not many ppl know about pente
Foxy [2d?\]: maybe, i especially mean with the physical board though
hellobye01 [11k\]: PENTA KILL
Foxy [2d?\]: that's worth something too
crazyeight [3d?\]: I thought the saying was about the number of chefs in a kitchen
ThienTru [-\]: :))
OoohShiny [4k\]: yeah
OoohShiny [4k\]: too many chefs => not good
]
;W[bj]C[sandbegger [1k\]: Fuente [2k\]: 45p can give 36 stones to a 9p 
sandbegger [1k\]: lol
crazyeight [3d?\]: when I was younger, I worked at a restaurant
USGO2 [-\]: he did the math
]
;B[ka]C[Fuente [2k\]: ;)
crazyeight [3d?\]: where they had 5 chefs working on any given shift
crazyeight [3d?\]: and their food was amazing
]
;W[ja]C[Foxy [2d?\]: was it a complete shiftshow
Foxy [2d?\]: oh
]
;B[eh]C[OoohShiny [4k\]: yeah, but they didnt try to reinvent every dish
AaronATX: difference in pro ranks is more like 1/3 of a stone though, right? so it would be 18 stones
AaronATX: err, bad math
AaronATX: 12
hellobye01 [11k\]: W+9.5 SE
]
;W[cj]
;B[dj]C[Fuente [2k\]: thanks for the clarification, Aaron, 18 stones it is
britboy [3k\]: lol
]
;W[al]
;B[ka]C[sandbegger [1k\]: the game is over to me
]
;W[ib]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: the game is over
]
;B[ma]C[Smochi [-\]: the game has been over for like an hour
AaronATX: TeamGo needs to hit the pause button and walk away
]
;W[ic]
;B[gh]
;W[hi]
;B[ak]C[r0n1n [2d\]: then stop watching it if you feel like it's over ?
loller [4k\]: now playing only one vs ag
]
;W[aj]
;B[ki]C[superpal1 [2d\]: SE give me b+5.5...
SamSpade [2d\]: so alphago lost an hour ago
superpal1 [2d\]: SE is not working?
sandbegger [1k\]: when a football game is 3:1 and there's only 3 minutes left
crazyeight [3d?\]: SE just stronger than 5 9ps, that's all
inte [?\]: well, SE is useless even this late in a close game.
]
;W[jh]C[Fuente [2k\]: SE is stronger than alphago?
]
;B[kf]C[sandbegger [1k\]: will u watch the remainning 3 min?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: se not working with chinese rules
ThienTru [-\]: g1 
kiet321: Yes, if you think it over, get out!!
ThienTru [-\]: b b
ThienTru [-\]: for b
ThienTru [-\]: c13 
USGO2 [-\]: myungwan is pessimistic about the future of go now
]
;W[lf]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: why?
hellobye01 [11k\]: lol
Smochi [-\]: tygem's score estimator is at least close sometimes
hellobye01 [11k\]: why pessimistic
inte [?\]: well, chess is thriving
superpal1 [2d\]: lol 
hellobye01 [11k\]: yes
Foxy [2d?\]: competitive go is going to die just like chess did when they lost to computers
ThienTru [-\]: super human will appear
Foxy [2d?\]: owait
inte [?\]: they've been dealing with this problem for 15 years at least, closer to 20.
LEIBNIZ [2k\]: future with AI is even better than w/o
hellobye01 [11k\]: w/o ?
]
;B[fo]C[superpal1 [2d\]: why pessimistic? did he explain why?
]
;W[in]C[LEIBNIZ [2k\]: with-out
crazyeight [3d?\]: has he offered an explanation for why he's pessimistic?
britboy [3k\]: do chess players learn from chess bots?
]
;B[hn]C[USGO2 [-\]: yeah on the AGA stream
]
;W[hg]
;B[gg]C[Fuente [2k\]: Now, if someone needs to explain why a move is good, all he has to say is that Alphago says so.
USGO2 [-\]: AG is playing fast
]
;W[ir]C[inte [?\]: well, computer chess programs are a huge part of opening preparation
AaronATX: he's worried that online players will be cheating using AI
USGO2 [-\]: hes worried from the end of the pro go player that sponsorships and tournaments will dry up
hellobye01 [11k\]: oh
inte [?\]: so I'd expect more novelties in fuseki in Go as well
Fuente [2k\]: cheating using AI is a waste of time when there is nothing at stake.
Foxy [2d?\]: cant players already cheat with ai?
britboy [3k\]: well we already see novelties in fuseki
]
;B[dk]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: it's not really cheating?
LEIBNIZ [2k\]: to cheat is a wast of time, no fun.
ThienTru [-\]: c13 
ThienTru [-\]: yose and time move
crazyeight [3d?\]: I see, that does make sense
inte [?\]: yes, a couple of chess players have been caught cheating.
]
;W[bl]C[fanfan [2d\]: 0 points in sente?
Foxy [2d?\]: this is so painful to watch though
Fuente [2k\]: if people want fake, computer assisted ranks, then it is no skin off my back. They are the losers.
Foxy [2d?\]: a countdown to inevitable 0.5 win
crazyeight [3d?\]: a big part of the size of the sponsorships for go is that the value of a strong game is not well understood
fanfan [2d\]: g16 big
USGO2 [-\]: it looks like once they entered byo yomi and endgame theyve stopped commentating with each other, no time. im guessing they just put their best endgame player in there
ThienTru [-\]: common b
USGO2 [-\]: which i guess is tang weixing
ThienTru [-\]: come on*
]
;B[fs]C[ThienTru [-\]: :3 we count on you
]
;W[mk]
;B[lk]C[hellobye01 [11k\]: why not yuting ?
britboy [3k\]: come on one final push for victory
hellobye01 [11k\]: Yuting is top 3 the world
inte [?\]: (I'm also hoping for some machine on machine Go games in the future, I forgot the name of the Chinese one that also beat pros...
AaronATX: michael redmon made an interesting point during the lee sedol series: humans made machines that are faster than any human but we still have foot races to see who is the fastest human
hellobye01 [11k\]: Fine Arts
]
;W[hp]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: just like how the better discovery of prices in the stock market due to computer algos and HFTs led to the extinction of stock traders in wallstreet
]
;B[ho]C[Fuente [2k\]: Wang computer
hellobye01 [11k\]: Wang ?
Fuente [2k\]: yes, Wang
sandbegger [1k\]: Dr strange 
ThienTru [-\]: maybe tang weixing is the best player of them in yose
]
;W[gd]
;B[de]C[Fuente [2k\]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Laboratories
ThienTru [-\]: want to watch the game FineArt vs AG in the final day :3
hellobye01 [11k\]: Ag win
]
;W[ed]C[OoohShiny [4k\]: so thats the point of it all? That we have to re-learn to enjoy a game for the sake of it, instead of tournament prices?
hellobye01 [11k\]: Tencen is just a game company
crazyeight [3d?\]: are FineArt and AG going to play?
]
;B[fd]C[ThienTru [-\]: nope
USGO2 [-\]: i think alphago will be shelved after this series is over
ThienTru [-\]: why don't make FineArt behind Ke Jie :))
hellobye01 [11k\]: Google never play a game vs Fine Arts
]
;W[ge]
;B[gf]C[ThienTru [-\]: sure will be fun
hellobye01 [11k\]: If Fine Arts can't win Ke Jie
crazyeight [3d?\]: shiny, the problem is that to develop real strength in go requires a crazy time commitment that conflicts with other things, like survival
Fuente [2k\]: I think alphago will be in high demand to teach pros.
]
;W[ee]C[ThienTru [-\]: FineArt win Ke Jie ten times
ThienTru [-\]: straight
superpal1 [2d\]: lol
OoohShiny [4k\]: well
crazyeight [3d?\]: so unless pro go players are subsidized, they'll either all starve to death or look for new careers
]
;B[ef]C[crazyeight [3d?\]: and the level of go will drop
inte [?\]: fuente, that may be the problem though... if you can play strong machines, who's going to pay the human pros?
crazyeight [3d?\]: in humans, anyways
OoohShiny [4k\]: for my part i dont know much, nor care much about the pro scene
OoohShiny [4k\]: it can die out for all I care
superpal1 [2d\]: strong machines cannot explain like pros do
]
;W[cd]C[SamSpade [2d\]: chess players still play each others, don't they?
sandbegger [1k\]: human can teach and communicate 
sandbegger [1k\]: bot can't
britboy [3k\]: we wont need go teachers, we will just train our neural networks while we sleep
LEIBNIZ [2k\]: yes
Fuente [2k\]: it will be that same as for chess. Strong computers do not detract from human competition.
ThienTru [-\]: FineArt and AlphaGo surpass top pro
USGO2 [-\]: myungwan wont be able to attend tomorrows AGA broadcast, but the pro commentary will be from ryan li, AGA 1p, known as crazywind on KGS
inte [?\]: most chess players can't make a living playing chess though
crazyeight [3d?\]: they do, but do they still do it for hundreds of millions of dollars?
Fuente [2k\]: most go players cant make a living playing go
]
;B[br]C[Foxy [2d?\]: inte most go players dont make a living playing go either
ThienTru [-\]: maybe future DeepZen surpass too
ThienTru [-\]: ươ
ThienTru [-\]: wow
ThienTru [-\]: =.=
crazyeight [3d?\]: Zen is close
ThienTru [-\]: really???
fanfan [2d\]: magic
superpal1 [2d\]: maybe in future there might be a better game than go
Foxy [2d?\]: b2?
ThienTru [-\]: b2?
Fuente [2k\]: B2 is joking
crazyeight [3d?\]: there will never be a better game than go
ThienTru [-\]: misclick?
]
;W[bp]C[friitrii: time move
ThienTru [-\]: ah
ThienTru [-\]: i see
SamuBlaa [7k\]: what happened
USGO2 [-\]: W+R
LEIBNIZ [2k\]: thx
fanfan [2d\]: here is the reason of black D9
USGO2 [-\]: game 3 of ke jie vs alphago will be broadcast on KGS tomorrow
])
